Rabbi Schaalman (Transcript Only)

INTERVIEWER: Sister Mary Cramer, BVM
INTERVIEWEE: Rabbi Schaalman
DAY: June 12, 1986
FULL NAME: Rabbi Herman E. Schaalman

RABBI, WOULD YOU TELL US YOUR FULL NAME?

Rabbi Herman E. Schaalman of Emanuel Congregation.

RABBI, WHEN I WAS HERE FOR THE PROGRAM HONORING THE VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST, I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE DETAILS THAT YOU TOLD ABOUT YOUR OWN LIFE. WHERE WERE YOU BORN, RABBI?

I was born in Munich, Germany.

HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU CAME TO THIS COUNTRY?

I was nineteen.

YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT GOING FIRST TO CEDAR RAPIDS, AND I WAS INTERESTED IN THAT BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN IN CEDAR RAPIDS.

I was Rabbi there for eight years: 1941 to 1949.

AND WAS CHICAGO YOUR NEXT ASSIGNMENT?

Right!

THEN YOU HAVE BEEN HERE SINCE 1949. HAVE YOU WITNESSED MANY CHANGES DURING THAT PERIOD TO THE PRESENT?

I haven’t been in Edgewater area since 1949, but I’ve always been on the north side, Rogers Park.

OH, YES. AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU LIVED IN EDGEWATER PROPER?

Since 1967.

OH, YES, WHEN YOU BECAME- 

I was already Rabbi when I moved up here.

AND YOU’VE BEEN RABBI HERE HOW LONG? SINCE WHEN?

1955.

YES, 1955. VERY INTERESTING. WHERE WAS YOUR EDUCATION, RABBI?

Well, in Germany I graduated from high school and then I came to Berlin to start rabbinic studies in the seminary there. Then circumstances were such to make it advisable not to continue there. Then a scholarship came to attend in Cincinnati, Ohio, and was selected in 1935 to go to Cincinnati, where I went to the Hebrew Union College for six years. I was graduated and ordained from it in 1941. I got my B.A. in 1937 and my Master’s in 1938. Then I got a Doctorate of Letters in 1966. So that’s the formal education part.

I ALWAYS ASSOCIATED THE RABBINICAL OFFICE WITH STUDY, WITH SCHOLARSHIP.

It is necessary. A Rabbi really means teacher, and in order to teach, one needs to study, to learn. So, yes, one’s teaching depends on the quality and depth, on the amount of reading and study he does.

I RECALL THAT YOU WERE ON THE FACULTY AT MUNDELEIN COLLEGE.

I taught there. Currently I’m teaching at the seminary of Northwestern. I’ve taught for thirty years and I’ve just accepted an invitation to teach in the Chicago Theological Seminary down at the University of Chicago. That will begin this fall. I’ve taught at DePaul University; in fact, I’m teaching there now. Whether I will continue that or not is questionable.

THAT IS A VERY, VERY INTERESTING BACKGROUND, ONE THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH SCHOLAR­SHIP ALL THE WAY THROUGH. WHAT WAS EDGEWATER LIKE, SHERIDAN ROAD, FOR INSTANCE, IN THE 1950’s WHEN YOU CAME?

Well, some of the high rise buildings that are here now certainly weren’t here then. I remember very well when some of them – for instance – the Lawndale Beach Buildings were erected. I remember also Malibu and the building to the north of it. Every building between there – the Tiara, the building in which I now live, wasn’t there either. In fact, when we moved in there in 1967, it was still being finished. The El Lago wasn’t there or the building to the north of it. They were one-family residences on most of the lots, because that had been a distinctive feature of Edgewater at the time. And then, one by one, these remarkably beautiful, large homes were sold and torn down and have been replaced by high rise buildings. Even this building of ours was not begun until 1953.

I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU – THIS BUILDING STARTED IN 1953?

Yes, in 1953. It was dedicated and moved into fully by January 1955. I used to live on Lunt Avenue and going downtown, I used to drive past here all the time. Sheridan Road was, of course, the main artery of traffic to downtown. The Outer Drive didn’t go beyond Foster so this was certainly an area that has had an enor­mous development. Certainly north of Foster, up to Hollywood, most of that is new within the last twenty-five years.

THAT IS TRUE! IT IS EXCITING, I THINK, THAT WE ARE CELEBRATING OUR CENTENNIAL THIS YEAR. YOUR WIFE CAME WITH YOU WHEN YOU CAME HERE. HAD YOU MARRIED WHEN YOU CAME TO CINCINNATI?

I was married in Cincinnati – met and married in Cincinnati.

THAT’S INTERESTING.

Married the day after my ordination.

WONDERFUL! THAT WAS VERY FITTING THAT YOU- 

I thought so (both laugh)

– MELDING TWO LIVES AT THE SAME TIME – THAT WAS CERTAINLY GREAT! I WAS INTERESTED IN THE GROWTH OF YOUR CONGREGATION. IT IS ONE OF THE LARGEST IN CHICAGO, ISN’T IT?

In the reformed community, yes. We are probably the third largest – third or fourth, in Chicago area. And it has had an increase of membership ever since it moved here from Buckingham Place, west of Broadway for close to fifty years – forty-eight years, I know. And then we’ve been in this location thirty-one or thirty-two years.

I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WHEN I WAS HERE AT THE SERVICE WITH THE BEAUTIFUL STAINED GLASS WINDOW.

It was a special gift that I was able to influence a lady, who has since unfortunately gone to her final reward, to make this gift to the congregation for this commemoration of the holocaust. It really is fascinating, isn’t it? It’s the work of a Polish Catholic who had been an inmate of a concentration camp. It was probably a Nazi war against all of Poland. He survived and he was commissioned by us to make this particular window. Of course its very fragmentation of hundreds of thousands of pieces is symbolic of the destruction of the 6 million Jews in Europe. And the colors have an additional symbolic meaning. At the center of it is a very intense yellow, whitish area which is sort of, if you want, the heart of the flame that destroyed the community, and then the shades of red ebbing out to the greys and blues which were the ashes, so to speak. The very fact that there are so many tiny pieces that make up the total mosaic is to me representative of the vast numbers of people who were destroyed.

I AM HAPPY TO HEAR THE SYMBOLISM. I FIND IT EXTREMELY MOVING. IT’S REALLY VERY BEAUTIFUL. IT REMINDED ME A LITTLE BIT OF CHAGALL. BUT IT HAS DIFFERENT COLORS.

He works with larger areas. It’s Bach’s! That was the name of the artist here. He preferred to work with very carefully defined, but much smaller pieces. It took a long time to assemble it – several layers of pieces, a very intricate process. I was once in his studio when he was working on it, just to get a feel for the very process by which it was composed. Of course before we committed ourselves to this enhancement, this rebuilding, we needed to make a determination of our remaining here. We have the funds. We will remain here. We base this primarily on the fact that we expect this area to have an upswing in quality in the quality of neighborhood-living. We were encouraged to think so, first of all, because we guessed that it has bottomed out in its decline. There was a decline of people especially along Winthrop and Kenmore Avenues, which brought in elements that were not originally there, and some of which undoubtedly are problems for the community. But I’m optimistic. I think the bottom has been reached and the rise of Sheridan Road, certainly as a housing area, is an experience of upgrading. I would think the area west of Broadway is very stable and secure. My guess is that in the not too distant future Kenmore and Winthrop will also not just stabilize, but will return to a semblance of its former quality. The construction of single-family homes, often replaced by the often low grade multi-housing units, has done nothing to help the Edgewater image. But I think perhaps those who are real estate developers will soon discover this is a most desirable area in Chicago – its proximity to the lake, to the Loop, to Evanston, to the universities and so on really put it right at the very center of the most desirable aspects of Chicago life. I would like to think that at least three strong institutions on Sheridan Road: St. Andrew’s to the south of us, we ourselves, then Mundelein where you are – I would like to think that between them and Sacred Heart as well, we would have enough real power to keep the area desirable.

I FOUND YOUR OBSERVATIONS VERY INTERESTING. IN LIGHT OF MY BRIEF EXPERIENCE OF THE PAST YEAR ON THE COUNCIL, I FIND YOUR COMMENTS VERY INTERESTING.

I have problems here, too. Strict density. We need to do things about traffic. Certainly we need to do things about bringing into the area commercial interests that would be more solid and more permanently rooted here than we have had in the past. I think all this is possible. In fact, I would like to think slowly the community is on the way to doing that.

H-mm. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN LIVING HERE IN EDGEWATER, WHAT HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE MEMORIES THAT YOU HAVE OF YOUR EXPERIENCE IN EDGEWATER WHICH PLEASED YOU MOST?

I would say that right at the very beginning, after I can here in ‘55, I was instrumental, together with the late ____________ of the Presbyterian Church, in forming what is now known as the Edgewater Clergy and Rabbi Association (ECRA). I think there, both symbolically and in reality, we did a lot to consolidate the sense of community. We were possibly the first such church organization of clergy that was joined by the Roman Catholic clergy. We did a survey here, a census maybe some twenty-three, four years ago, where on one Sunday we sent out hundreds of canvassers who canvassed, I believe, maybe 20,000 homes or units. We had a pretty fair idea of what religious basis the community consisted of. The Roman Catholic parishes, both St. Ita and St. Gertrude, then St. Gregory participated in that. And the fellowship that developed from that in planning and executing this particular census was such as to induce them to stay with ECRA. I don’t know whether we were the first, but only the one such in the metropolitan area in Chicago, which which were the the three major faith communities these represented. We were certainly one of those, and that has been really one of thebackbones, the mainstay of the community. It was also about that time that I became active with some others in forming the Edgewater Community Council. There were a couple of false starts, I think, which did not survive for any length of time. But then we did it again. I think I served as vice president or something for awhile. But here, too, again I think the introduction of some of the really community-minded clergy of the area helped direct the Council away from purely commercial interests or real estate interests into wider concerns – a sense of community with cultural and other events being part of the considerations. I think those are some of the things that I have always supported. Some important experiences and memories that I recall: we did something over at Senn High School for awhile and the late Ralph Pomeroy, who was pastor of Bethany Lutheran Church, ought to be especially remembered. There were gangs that were having violent confrontations then, and a couple of times we went over there, where we actually stood between the warring factions, as it were, physically to keep them apart, to quiet them, and to cool them down. He in particular achieved great merit helping to consolidate again the place of the clergy in critical, communal matters. There was one gang, I don’t know if it is still in existence, The TJOs, a really terrifying gang. I know the few times I had them over here for dinner and for meetings with clergy and others who were trying to deflate their budding violence – I don’t really claim now that there was any permanent effect with this, but we surely tried. These are some of the recollections I have of Edgewater in the past, which at least seem to me to indicate that we accomplished a few things.

I FIND IT VERY INTERESTING, RABBI, THAT THESE VERY MEMORIES THAT YOU ARE SHARING WITH ME NOW ARE EVIDENCE OF YOUR GOING OUT FROM YOUR OWN WORK HERE AT THE TEMPLE TO INCLUDE ALL THESE OTHERS. YOU WERE ECUMENICAL BEFORE THE WORD BECAME FASHIONABLE.

Let me say to you, this is part of the whole process of Judaism as it sees itself, to not be so insular, to not be self-contained. There is plenty of work to be done on both sides, but we always feel that we have a major obligation, not an incidental one, but essentially a major obligation to the world about us. So for us to go out and to reach into the community is not laudable, but unavoidable. What is marvelous is that in spite of some initial hesitations, from time to time, real resistance on the part of one or the other clergy here, the rest of them, almost without exception, are of the same mind. We have done a lot of things together even including ecumenical services, dialogue, and sharing of the civic and specific religious moments. So I think we’ve helped create an atmosphere to some extent that has been beneficial for Edgewater.

I’M CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN WORK WITH THE AGING AND I AM VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT THE COUNCIL ON JEWISH ELDERLY DO. ARE MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN CONGREGATION INVOLVED?

Very deeply involved – the man who founded the Council for the Jewish Elderly is Joseph _____________. He was a member here; it was through him that I was a member of the Board when that agency was founded. I then went off the Board because I was invited to join another board. I couldn’t be on both at the same time. But, yes, there are even now members of my congregation both of professional and on the volunteer basis who are deeply involved in the work with the elderly. Look at the composition of the area – the above middle age and middle age – has certainly affected us materially. This congregation has certainly a higher percentage of middle age and above middle age people even more than expected in a congregation of this size that would normally be located in the suburbs. We do a great deal of work with senior citizens.

ARE THE YOUNG PEOPLE ALSO INVOLVED? I WAS IMPRESSED ALSO AT THE CEREMONY WITH THEIR PARTICIPATION.

Yes, their work extends to the elderly. There have been years, I don’t know if they are currently doing it or not, but in past years our youth have from time to time gone into areas, in these homes even on weekends where the elderly and sick are housed, and have given them some song and dance programs to cheer them up, to make these homes a little more cheerful and livable. So, yes, we are trying to awaken in our young people a sense of obligation and fulfillment of their own human and religious duties in that regard.

I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE INVOLVEMENT OF SOME OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE – ONE OF THE THINGS THAT INTRIGUED ME IS THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE WOMEN’S MOVEMENT. ARE WOMEN INVOLVED IN THE SERVICES OR IN THE JEWISH RELIGION? I SPEAK, OF COURSE, FROM A CATHOLIC BACKGROUND – AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE BEEN DISAPPOINTED.

The Jewish women, especially those belonging to the nonorthodox congregation have been a lot more fortunate in that regard. In the reform movement of which this is a member congregation, we have, I would think, fully qualified people. We have had a woman president here already, and we are going to have women rabbis. We have certainly in our own congregation here given even some of the most crucial and important responsibilities in the light of the congregation to women. They participate freely and totally in the religious services so that there is, we think, virtually no distinction on the basis of gender. A conservative movement is tending in the direction of objecting to this equalizing of the roles of men and women. In Orthodoxy, of course, such an attempt isn’t even being made. There the synagogue is primarily a male preserve. The females were out. Some of the synagogues might take the position that women have given up very little by not being recognized in the synagogues as legitimate participants. I do, however, believe there are many women in circles, short of the ultra orthodox, who today are struggling to make the effort of having a greater share even of the synagogue life, but up to now they haven’t really succeeded.

IT’S AN INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT, THOUGH, IN MANY RELIGIONS, AND I’M GLAD YOU SHARED WITH US WHERE THE JEWISH PEOPLE STAND. WHAT ARE SOME OF YOUR PLANS FOR YOUR RETIREMENT – WHATEVER THAT WORD RETIREMENT MEANS?

Well, first of all, we are staying in the area; we’re staying in our apartment and I’ll remain attached to this congregation. My successor, _______ has asked me to continue some of my functions in the teaching field. I’m deeply involved in a number of community organizations—more than I have done in the past. And there are those to whom I want to devote a little more time. Then I’m teaching both at Northwestern University and at the Chicago University, Chicago Theological School. I’m being asked to deliver lectures, sometimes travelling to lecture. I assume this will continue, so even without having to look for it, I guess I’ll have an interesting full life.

YOU WILL BE SOUGHT OUT, I’M SURE! WHO WERE SOME OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE, RABBI? THOSE WHO REALLY SHAPED YOUR THINKING, SHAPED SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE DONE?

Well, above all else is my late father who not only excelled in mathematics and physics, but was a Jewish scholar besides. He died twenty years ago, let’s see – thirty years ago, in Brazil, and with whom I had no real live contact since nineteen hundred and thirty-five, except for usual visits here and there. But he certainly was the single, strongest influence of my life. I think I need to mention one of the persistent, strong influences of my life is my wife, who has been not just an observer, but also a critic, a person of infallible instinct, of high standards to which time and again she’d recall me. I’ve had some friends, colleagues, classmates who left an imprint on me without a doubt. Among the peoples whose books I read who were my guides or mentors are Martin Buber and Rabbi Heschel. It’s really difficult for me to draw them all out. I will say this that I’ve always found teaching as enormously enriching an endeavor because students or adults add a totally new dimension toward life. Teaching, therefore, is not just giving, it is probably equally a receiving. So I certainly put my congregation and my students in the place of some of the most effective influences on me.

THAT’S VERY INTERESTING AND I LIKE THAT PART ABOUT YOUR FATHER—THAT’S VERY BEAUTIFUL. WERE THERE OTHER RABBIS IN YOUR FAMILY?

I’m told way back there were, but I never knew any of them, because by the time I was born, I had only one grandparent, a grandmother, my mother’s mother alive. All the others were gone already; my grandmother also died when I was fairly young so I am only speaking from hearsay. But somewhere in the past there were Rabbis.

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE – WHAT SHOULD I SAY – SOME OF THE INFLUENCES THAT LED YOU TO EMBRACE THE RABBINICAL STATE?

Well, it really began, I suppose, with the influences of my late father who studied with me regularly every Sabbath. My preparation for my Bar Mitzvah was very important to me. Before I was thirteen I had my mind made up quite a few times – with a doubt or two possibly. I dealt with possible other ways fashioning my life, but I always came back to the combination – I wanted to do something with people, for people. So these twin considerations naturally emerged into the Rabbinate and I have never regretted it.

ARE YOU THE ONLY CHILD OR DID YOU HAVE SIBLINGS?

I have two younger brothers; one who lives in Brazil, the other lives now in Israel.

THAT’S INTERESTING – THREE OF YOU IN THREE COUNTRIES.

Yes, both interesting and painful because it means obviously that we see each other very, very rarely. But that contact that we would wish to maintain on a much more intense basis is impossible. So we are virtually aware of the painful or often catastrophic impact of the Hitler years. If it hadn’t been for that… My wife has an only sister who lives in Israel, so we are really quite alone in a sense…when it comes to near relatives.

YES, CLOSE FAMILY. I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE A SCHOOL CONNECTED HERE, DON’T YOU, AT THE TEMPLE?

Yes, we do have this five hours per week instruction program, which practically all of the children of different age ranges attend. This is in addition to their regular schooling and takes place usually after school.

THIS IS VERY IMPRESSIVE THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO PUT IN THIS TIME.

Yes, but it is also devotion on the part of the parents because they often have to drive them because many of them live in the suburbs. It’s really an investment of time and commitment that is well to recognize.

RIGHT! WHERE DO YOU FIND TEACHERS FOR YOUR SCHOOL?

Well, there is an organization in Chicago called the Board of Jewish Education, and the Spertus College of Judaica where they train teachers, or train people who can be teachers, and we try to get teachers from that level because we know they have training in both Jewish subjects as well as theology.

I THINK THAT’S IMPORTANT.

We have a faculty here – for a relatively small school; we have about one hundred fifty, one hundred sixty students – but we must have a faculty of 16 or 17.

OH, THAT’S A VERY GOOD RATIO! VERY GOOD! I RECALL YOUR SAYING BACK IN 1960s WHEN THE CATHOLICS DISCOVERED ECUMENISM AND WE CAME TO VISIT YOU. WE WERE THINKING ABOUT DROPPING LATIN FROM OUR SERVICES AND I RECALL YOUR SAYING THAT IT WAS APPROPRIATE THAT WE WOULD ADDRESS GOD IN A SPECIAL REVERENTIAL WAY AND NOT IN THE SAME LANGUAGE IN WHICH WE ORDERED OUR GROCERIES. I NEVER FORGOT THAT!(both laugh)

Well, there’s both value and virtue in using the vernacular simply because it is so easily available and understandable, but there’s also a loss of the mystique in it. Often we want to be reverential but the language becomes too easy. So I think some of that needs to have some kind of concession made to the need, especially in worshipping, to allow language to become a conveyor of the mysterious.

M-M – I THINK THAT’S BEAUTIFULLY PUT. I’VE BEEN VERY INTERESTED IN THE IMPACT THAT YOUR CONGREGATION HAS HAD ON THE AREA, AND CERTAINLY THAT YOU’VE HAD. I THINK THAT IT HAS MADE A TREMENDOUS IMPACT.

Well, I don’t know whether that’s true, Sister. I can’t gauge that. I know this much that from time to time especially, I try to use whatever capacities I have to put to service those projects and values that are dear to me, to enhance the area. The congregation is a major factor here. I would think so – the very fact that we’re bringing people from regions other than Edgewater – many of our members live beyond Edgewater. In fact, only about a third of our members really live here, the other two thirds come from some distance to be here. I think it can’t help but be a factor. Obviously, also we are a consideration in people choosing their homes here because if they are looking for a congregation available to them, they find us here, and that’s made a difference. I’m sure a number of people made this choice of domicile. Of most importance, I think, is that we have people here, from time to time – or regularly, give themselves to committees and boards and efforts that are made here to improve the conditions of life for all. And we will continue to do so. They probably have additional time to consider some of these matters but my successor, too, is totally committed to this program. He will undoubtedly continue it and maybe enhance it.

THAT SHOULD MAKE YOU FEEL VERY REWARDED, VERY SATISFIED (yes it does) WITH THE QUALITY OF YOUR LIFE AND WHAT YOU HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE AREA.

People, I think, have sometimes been more generous than I deserved – they might be exaggerating of what they think my contributions are, but be that as it may, I certainly have a lively interest in the area and I intend to continue it.

WELL THAT I THINK IS WHAT EDGEWATER IS ALL ABOUT TODAY. ONE DOES SENSE A REAL SENSE OF EXCITEMENT ABOUT THE AREA’S INTENDING NOT ONLY TO KEEP IT STABLE, BUT TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY – AND YOU CERTAINLY HAVE CONTRIBUTED. THANK YOU, SO VERY, VERY MUCH. THIS HAS BEEN WONDERFUL!

It’s so nice to be with you!