Mary Wenthe Callaghan (Transcript Only)
INTERVIEWER: Betty Mayian
INTERVIEWEE: Mary Callaghan
FULL NAME: Mary Elizabeth Wenthe Callaghan DATE INTERVIEWED: February 16, 1986
Mary Callaghan, 5555 N. Sheridan
Interviewed: 81 E. Beach Apts. #1415
MARY, HOW OLD ARE YOU?
In two weeks I’m going to be 82.
MARY, WERE YOU BORN IN EDGEWATER?
No. I was born in St. Mary of the Lake Parish, but I moved up to Granville and
Glenwood at age five.
WHICH MADE IT?
Which made it 1909.
GRANVILLE AND GLENWOOD, WHICH WAS THE EDGEWATER AREA AT THAT TIME AND STILL IS—
Yes, it was.
WHAT SCHOOL DID YOU GO TO?
Hayt School, because they didn’t have any school yet at St. Gertrude’s. They
didn’t build a school until I was in third grade, so I started at Hayt.
DID YOU CONTINUE ON AT HAYT, OR DID YOU TRANSFER?
Oh, as soon as St. Gertrude’s built a school, I transferred. You see the original
St. Gertrude’s was in a frame building at northwest corner of Granville and Broad
way. My father didn’t want his kids going to a frame school because he thought it
was a fire trap. Assoon as St. Gertrude’s opened, we transferred–at the end of
the semester.
SO THEY OPENED IN 1909–OH, NO-NO! YOU CAME IN 1909!
That’s right! They opened and I didn’t go until I was six.
AND AFTER ST. GERTRUDE’S, WHERE DID YOU GO?
Pardon–what other school? What high school? Oh, Lourdes.
LOURDES?
Lourdes High School on Ashland. From there to Chicago Teachers College.
AND YOU WERE A RESIDENT OF WHICH PARISH? WERE YOU IN ST. GERTRUDE’S ALL THE TIME?
No. When we moved up to Granville, we were in St. Ita’s parish–it went all the way up to Devon, but my older brother and I used to walk over to St. Ignatius Church, which was that little portable, a little frame church on the shores of Lake Michigan, just north of Devon, right at the Lake and–was that a long, cold walk. We’d stop at the only building between our house and the church to get warm, then on we’d go. On Sundays, my father would drive my mother down to St. Ita’s while we had to stay home and take care of the kids, that’s why we couldn’t go to church with her, there being seven of us. We had quite a job. But it was practically all prairie and it was not even paved–and that was called Southport at the time. The road was two ruts–the only avenue paved was with cedar blocks and we were there until I was in sixth grade, when St. Gertrude’s church bought our house. They wanted property to build a church. And, uh, the reason we settled in that neighborhood was because my grandfather originally owned a lot on the north side of Granville Avenue, just west of Glenwood. And we bought the house across the street, the second house from the corner. That’s when they built their portable church and he had a great time trying to buy property; he wanted to locate on the corner. So–there was a three-flat on the northwest corner of Glenwood and Granville, but those people wouldn’t sell. So the parish bought our corner house–first they bought ours, then the corner. We had a sunken yard next to us, then their house on the corner. Father Schubridge came over and asked us to sell.
Eventually he bought the one next to us and built the church there. But in the meantime, we bought a two-flat down the street from the three-flat and that became the rectory. That’s where they built the portable church–on the lot that my grandfather owned. So-
WHAT KIND OF A HOME WAS IT YOU OWNED? THE ONE THAT THEY BOUGHT FROM YOU?
Just a frame. I have a picture of it. Would you like to see it?
OH, YES, I SURE WOULD!
It’s not the whole house, but anyhow, we’re on the front porch.
OH, YOU’VE GOT AN ALBUM?
There we are on the front porch and this is the house next door on the corner. By
the way–Oh, here’s St Gertrude’s School, the original one- It’s still the
same one. Then we moved over here to ____ Street when I was twelve. That
building is still there on the northeast corner. But you can see–a frame house
with a porch on the front and all the say around the side. Now that’s my brother
___. Here you can see a picture of one of mybrothers. And that’s the two-
flat that they boughtthe rectory _________ they wouldn’t sell. Here we are
again. There’s oneI want to show you–oh, here we are again in the car.
And this is the three-flaton the corner. And see–over here–nothing–it’s just
all prairie out there.
WHAT KIND OF CAR WAS THIS? DO YOU REMEMBER?
No–just a big car (laugh). Here’s Mary all dressed up in her Easter bonnet.
There are only five of us here. You see, there are two more after that; one
more childwas born in this house and the other one was born across the street.
THEY ARE WONDERFUL PICTURES.
My father was quite a photographer–every Sunday morning he’d turn on a bright light in the bathroom and he’d develop his pictures in the bathroom. We used to get mad. With seven kids he’d have the room all tied up there. We’d get mad, but he-e-e loved it. One of my brothers became quite a photographer. He now works for Eastman Kodak. Oh, then, of course, being the second eldest, it was my job to take the babies out for a walk. They loved to be taken in their go-cart–not a stroller, but a go-cart down to watch the elevated train on ground level at the Granville Avenue El Station.
ALL THE ELS WERE ON THE GROUND THEN?
Oh, Yes, Yes.
AND THIS WAS APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME? WHEN YOU WERE IN YOUR TEENS? CLOSE TO 1919 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
No, No–not that long.
WAS THE WAR ON? (Male voice)
The World War was on when I was graduating from high school, but this was in the
grade school. We went out there in 1909, so this probably was 1911-1912.
They even had a gate man. He would come out from his little shed, when he’d
hear the bell in the distance, grind down the gates and we’d wait for the train
to pass. Then of course, again when the bell rang, we’d know the traffic could
pass–the little ones were thrilled with it all. So that was my job. Every time I
went out to play I had to take a baby along with me, but I didn’t mind because
we’d tie one end of the jump rope onto the handle of the go-cart. I wouldn’t have
trouble at all.
(both laugh) The wonderful thing–it was a wonderful neighborhood to be raised
in because there were so many neat buildings being put up. We could get over there and climb up on the ladders, walk along the planks where they were building.
in because there were so many neat buildings being put up. We could get over there and climb up on the ladders, walk along the planks where they were building.
YOU SAID THAT YOU WENT TO THE TEACHERS COLLEGE.
Right!
IS THAT WHAT YOU BECAME AFTERWARDS THEN? YOU BECAME A TEACHER?
I’m a retired teacher.
WHERE DID YOU TEACH?
North Avenue and Ashland. Then I transferred to _______________________ that’s at Washtenaw and North Shore. To get over there, I took the one-man street car. Devon Avenue was not paved, but they had a street car going to the end of the line. And that was when ________________________________________down Greenview Avenue andthe same way coming home.
WHAT GRADES DID YOU TEACH?
I started out with first, and taught primary grades and when I went up to
_______________ and had fifth and sixth grade up there. Then I went back when my
daughter was in high school and ended up teaching in Armstrong. That’s where I
retired from. It’s on _________ and Ridge.
HOW LONG DID YOU TEACH?
In and out, probably I taught about twenty-three years.
IN AND OUT BEING DURING MARRIAGE? WHEN DID YOU MEET YOUR HUSBAND? WAS HE AN EDGEWATER PERSON?
He lived on Thorndale, but he wasn’t born in Edgewater. But I met him at a neighbor’s house right in the neighborhood. After we were married–oh, I wanted to tell you
AND YOU GOT MARRIED WHAT YEAR?
1939. I was a child-bride. (laugh)
AND YOU HAD HOW MANY CHILDREN?
We only had one. And she had one. But there being seven of us in the family, there are plenty running around now. I had five brothers and one sister.
WHEN DID YOU DECIDE TO COME TO THE EDGEWATER BEACH APARTMENTS?
Right after we were married, very shortly after, even before my father died, they
decided to sell the house on ___________ Street, and so then my mother said, how about you buying a two-flat building–so we did. We bought one on Lakewood between Devon and Arthur. We had seven rooms and two baths. And though we had only one daughter, we had two grandmas with us. So we needed all that room. My mother didn’t live there right away; she came later when she was ill. We decided that after our daughter got married and the two grandmas had died, we didn’t want that great big place. We were ready to come down here, we’ve been here fifteen years.
WHAT CHANGES HAVE YOU SEEN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD? HOW DO YOU REMEMBER THE OLD
EDGEWATER AS COMPARED WITH THE NEW ONE?
Well, take for instance, Sheridan and Devon and Broadway–all coming together. That was all prairie. As I told you, my brother and I walked to church over there– nothing around there. No. Just nothing. And, again, the elevated was on the ground, of course. And thenorthwest corner that now has that home for senior citizens was all boarded up. It was a golf course originally. And so the house we bought on Lakewood, the two flat, was all golf course property. And they ________________________And the old Edgewater Golf Course went from there out to Pratt. Pratt and Ridge,you know. And the same thing with the neighborhood at Granville and Broadway.There’s nothing there. They did have a drug store, a real good drug store, gorgeous.That was on the southwest corner.
DO YOU REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT?
No–I used to know it, but I can’t remember-
THAT WAS GRANVILLE AND BROADWAY?
Yes, you pass it on the way over to the elevated, walking over to there. My
Father didn’t use the elevated. He used the Northwestern train from the Kenmore
Station that used to be at __________________ and Ravenswood.
WAS NORTHWESTERN ELEVATED LIKE IT IS NOW? OR WAS IT FLAT? (male voice)
It was on the ground, but the train was elevated.
OH, THE TRAIN WAS ELEVATED!
Oh, you said Northwestern.
WHAT OTHER TRANSPORTATION WAS AROUND? WERE THERE STREET CARS?
Street cars on Clark and also on Evanston Avenue, which is now Broadway, but, when
we first moved there, they stopped at Ardmore. A street car station there. And
my aunt would come up from work. She’d take the Evanston Avenue street car, and
wouldhave to get off at Ardmore and walk from Ardmore and Broadway over to
Granville andBroadway. That was a pretty good hike. But she did. She loved
everything.
WHAT TYPE OF OTHER BUILDINGS WERE AROUND THAT YOU REMEMBER? YOU REMEMBER THE DRUG STORE AND THE GOLF COURSE, WHAT OTHER KIND OF SHOPPING WAS THERE?
We’d go shopping over on Clark Street. Broadway was a little too far for us. And we were only two blocks from Clark Street.
We did our shopping there. And in the days when my mother, with her bunch of kids, could just call the grocer in the morning, and he would tell her all the good buys and good produce he had, and they’d deliver. Except, of course, we did actually have to do some shopping. There was an A & P at Rosemont and Clark Streets. I’d take a basket, and immediately after school I’d have to take care to get butter, eggs, and coffee. And tea! It was a real A & P Tea Store, before it became a super market like they are now. Now that was at Rosemont. Of course, we walked a lot, so it didn’t really seem that far. And in the winter we would take our sled. We had a sled that had a handle on it and it had great big runners on the bottom. Of course, we had a fine time going to the store with that. But once it wasn’t so good because I was cutting through a lot and I was running and I dumped my brother in the snow. And in the course of the fall, we lost a ten-dollar bill on the way to the store. Do you think we could find it in that snow? So, I remember. We were going to Lehman’s. It was on Clark between _____________ and Granville, on the other side of the street. And then, the butcher shop was next store. Before that my mother would call up. The store was on the west side of Clark Street. We weren’t allowed to cross Clark Street. Too dangerous with the street cars there. That was Masik’s Grocery Store and meat market. Then there was an old drug store on the corner of Granville and Clark. It was ________________ originally.
BESIDES THE STORES, WERE THERE BUILDINGS FOR ENTERTAINMENT, ROLLER SKATING, OR THEATER?
The nearest show to us, they called it The Devon, and that was on the north side
Of Devon, just west of Clark. And now I think it is some kind of a church, an Oriental Church. I think it is still there.
IS THAT THE ONLY ORIENTAL CHURCH?
Yes, but when we were living on Granville, the Arena was built, which is now the Broadway Armory and they had ice-skating there. And every Sunday, my cousins would come from Evanston and we’d all go over there and skate. I could skate on that ice.
WAS THAT THE SAME BUILDING? ACTUALLY THAT THE ARMORY WAS IN? NOT JUST THE SAME LOCATION, IT’S THE SAME BUILDING?
Same building.
SO IT WAS BUILT FIRST ASAN ICE-SKATING RINK? DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN IT CHANGED?
DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN IT CHANGED TO THE ARMORY?
Yes, it was built as an armory when they stopped having ice-skating there. It
was too expensive.
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT THE PRICES WERE?
(Laugh) I’ll bet it was only a quarter. You know in those days, that was big
money- it could have been only a dime. I don’t remember.
SO YOU HAD ONE THEATER, AND YOU HAD THE ICE-SKATING. WHAT ELSE DID YOU DO FOR
ENTERTAINMENT? DID YOU USE THE BEACHES?
Yes, yes–at the end of every street there was a beach. And the most popular one
was Rosemont, because they didn’t have any houses along there. I remember going
for walks on Sunday afternoons and seeing all the beautiful homes up along
Sheridan Road—nowgone.
YEAH, WHAT A SHAME!
Yes, it was really sad seeing them tearing them down. We kids managed–we made our own fun. And that’s with all of the empty lots. It was wonderful for playing cowboys, digging ditches ‘n’ we had underground huts and stufflike that. We made our own fun–we didn’t have to go any place to be entertained.
WITH SEVEN CHILDREN, YOU HAD YOUR OWN LITTLE CLIQUE OR CLUB!
And we did flood that lot next door, too. We could always go skating there, but
I could skate better at the arena.
WHEN IT CAME TIME FOR YOU TO DATE, DID YOU GO TO DANCES, OR WERE THERE OTHER
PLACES YOUR BEAUS USED TO TAKE YOU?
Uh-huh. By the time I did start to date, you see, the Edgewater Beach was built
and.
I REMEMBER IT BEFORE IT WAS TORN DOWN, BUT NOT WHEN IT WAS IN ITS HEY DAY. BUT
THEN I WAS AN OLD SOUTHSIDER, SO MY MOTHER DIDN’T EVEN COME UP TO THE NORTH SIDE--ANOTHER WORLD. WERE YOU AT THE ARAGON AT ALL WHEN IT WAS
– yes, yes. Not that I ever got to go there; then they had, what did they call that? the Rainbow Ball Room, up by Clark, across the street from St. Boniface Cemetery, and that was where I remember they then had Jai Lai, then took over as a skating rink–that was more recent. (A male voice interjects)
DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN OUR LADY OF LOURDES SWITCHED ITS CHURCH FROM ONE SIDE OF THE STREET TO THE OTHER?
I went to Lourdes High School, you see, right next door to the old church, so I
was in high school when the church was on the east side of the street . .
SO YOU WENT TO IT WHEN IT WAS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET?
I went to the whole one when it was on the east side; I graduated in that church.
YOU MEAN ONLY AFTER OR BEFORE IT MOVED. H-m-m? AFTER IT MOVED, YOU DIDN’T GO
THERE?
No. Okay-
(Male voice) DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YEAR THE CHURCH WAS MOVED?
No. I don’t. I graduated from there in 1922 . .
HOW ABOUT CLUBS AND ORGANIZATIONS? DID YOU BELONG TO ANY AROUND?
My mother did–you know in those days they had the Altar and Rosary Society, but
they didn’t have anything for kids–we just had our own fun.
WELL, WHEN YOU GOT TO BE AN ADULT–DO YOU REMEMBER THE POLITICS, ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT THAT TIME?
No, I wasn’t much of a joiner, but my brothers worked for Keenan.
FRANK KEENAN?
Yes, that was the only politician we knew. My brother didn’t have another job—
that was during depression, so he was working for Frank Keenan.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF EDGEWATER TODAY? WHAT ARE YOUR OPINIONS?
I am thrilled with the way it’s going to attract. It just broke my heart to see
that corridor–Kenmore and that–going down the drain. And now as I walk along
those streets, I can’t help but admire the wonderful rehabilitation they’re doing
therewith those old, old buildings.
IT’S GOOD TO HEAR THAT!
I’m glad to see this because they did have beautiful homes along Kenmore, also.
Now, across the street from the Sovereign (?) on the south east corner, Montanas had a house. They had a great big yard–empty lot, a lovely flower garden around the side, and one of the Montanas was a classmate of mine. So we had our eighth grade graduation party there. That’s where they have cleaning facilities now–you know, automatic cleaner and all.Of course, the Sovereign wasn’t even thought about then. We could go around the neighborhood and stay until after dark, and walk home–and there was no problem at all.
WHAT OTHER MEMORIES DO YOU HAVE OF YOUR CHILD’S GROWING UP? IN EDGEWATER?
Well, she was born when we lived over on ____________________. We were
really in Rogers Park then, over on the north side.
WHERE WERE YOU EXACTLY?
We were on Lakewood, north of Devon–that was considered Rogers Park.
YEH, THAT WAS ROGERS PARK–IT STILL IS!
Now when she was going to parties, my husband would always take a car full of
girls going, and she had a sense of whom to come home with. She lived through it
all; and she turned out to be much better for it.
YOU LIVED ALMOST ALL OF YOUR LIFE IN THIS GENERAL AREA AND YOU SAW A LOT OF
CHANGES. DO YOU THINK THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BE A GOOD ONE?
Oh, definitely! With all of the rehabilitating they’re doing, I think it’s going
to come back–and they’re doing such a good job in restoring places as they were
originally. Good strong buildings, well built. I have great hopes.
BRINGING US UP TO DATE, THEN. RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE A MEMBER OF ST. ITA’S AND YOU
HAVE BEEN FOR A GOOD LONG TIME.
Fifteen years, now. Thirty years in St. Gertrude’s, thirty years in St. Ignatius, so you see, I’ve been in this little cluster all of my life.
AND YOU WERE SAYING BEFORE THAT YOU COLLECTED FOR "CARE FOR REAL." HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN THAT?
It was through the ladies in the building; they were working over there. It’s such a worthy cause that I wanted to do something–I had been busy all my life, now I was retired. It began in the parishes–after Sunday Masses in the parish auditorium. We’d stay after Mass on Sundays for our typing?
WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THE NUNS WHO TAUGHT YOU?
They were BVMs who taught me, and then I had BVMs at Lourdes High, so I had the BVMs all through. I think they are marvelous teachers. My sister followed through and went to Mundelein College where she had BVMs. Well, we all had BVM education.
I KNOW SISTER MARY CRAMER AT MUNDELEIN. I DON’T KNOW IF SHE’S A BVM OR NOT–
Oh, she’s over at Mundelein; she’s a BVM.
PROBABLY! YOU CAN’T TELL ANY MORE. LET’S SEE, WHAT ELSE? HOW ABOUT YOUR HUSBAND? WHAT DOES HE DO FOR A LIVING?
He had a Printing and Messenger Service down in the Insurance Building.
THE INSURANCE EXCHANGE?
Yes, the Insurance Exchange Building. And just serviced that building. You see it was printing up the insurance forms–and the messenger service consisted in delivering between the offices–you know, every office. It was a good occupation.
AND YOUR DAUGHTER WENT ON TO DO WHAT?
Guess what?
TEACHER? (laugh)
I had to laugh when she went on to college, though she said before she went to college she wanted to go to St. Therese’s because they had a good nursing school up there. She wanted to be a nurse. You see, growing up with these grandmothers in the house–she was so used to them, doing things for them, she thought that was nursing, until she found out she had to take care of sick people. She couldn’t take that–that division of nursing, taking care of the really sick. So one day she said to me, you know you make teaching sound like fun (I didn’t know that I had). So she pursued teaching and loved it.
WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU? DO YOU REMEMBER ANYONE THAT WAS FAMOUS OR THAT WENT ON TO MAKE ANY KIND OF A NAME FOR THEMSELVES? OR ANY JUST INTERESTING?
I can’t remember any of them who went on to be famous. We just are all very normal people, and ended up very successful in life, and very happy about the whole thing.
DID THE PEOPLE YOU KNEW AS A CHILD–DID THEY STAY AROUND THE SAME AREA, TOO?
Yes, I think that’s one thing about staying in the same area. You have so many friends–you’re walking down the street and saying hello to everybody. In fact, when I’d be going over to St. Ignatius, my husband would say, Good night, you know everybody! You know _________________________ is no different from the other side. Or you’d know some of their sisters or brothers or relatives.
(Indistinct male voice) –IT WAS STARTING TO SLEET AND IT WAS GETTING SLIPPERY AND I DON’T KNOW IF THEY LAID SOME SALT OUT AND AFTER THE CARS GROUND THE SALT INTO THE ICE TO BREAK IT UP OR WHAT IT WAS. WE WERE PARKED IN THE _________THAT WOULD BE SAFER WITH THE ICE AND EVERYTHING, TOO.
Yes, that’s true–you’d get stuck on the side there, and your windshield got frozen.
HOW HAVE YOU FOUND THIS BUILDING AS A PLACE TO LIVE?
Oh, I love it. After we sold the house, we moved up here. Oh, I know, we had been to Europe–after our daughter was married and uh–I had been to Europe when my sister graduated from college–it was a family present to her–I was sent along as her chaperone, but it turned out to be the other way around.
THAT WAS IN 1931!
But my husband had never been to Europe, we left the 29th of April and came home the first of June. And our lawn! It was a disgrace. My husband and I had always wanted that lawn to be perfect all the time when we were home. My daughter and her husband were supposed to care for it while we were away. I couldn’t understand what happened. The phone rang–it was my daughter calling to say, I want you to know before anyone else tells you, I broke my leg skiing while you were away and we weren’t able to take care of the lawn. So that settled it. We decided suddenly we were not going to stay here and be tied down to a house. We wanted to travel. So we retired. We put the house on the market the first of June–that would give us plenty of time to find another place. We didn’t have any idea where we were going to move. My word we sold, signed, and sealed by the Fourth of July.
YOU’RE ENJOYING IT HERE?
I had friends over here and I had that feeling, I wanted to stay in the neighborhood. There many nice apartments in the area. But while I was playing bridge with the "girls" here, I happened to tell them of my predicament and they said, why don’t you look here? There’s a nice five-room apartment, five rooms, two baths, two floors up. I hesitated, but they said, Let’s go and look. So I called for an appointment and he fell in love with it. He was even more thrilled over it than I. But now I just love it and wouldn’t want to be any place else.
IT IS LOVELY–IT REALLY IS!
They showed us another apartment . . one had a nice bay and a beautiful crystal
chandelier in the dining room, and two bedrooms, two baths. The idea just caught
us, because by that time my mother had died and my brother, the priest–by the
way he was the first priest-
OH, FAMOUS! YOUR OWN BROTHER!
The first priest of our gang from St. Gertrude’s, first of the students. At my mother’s place, he had a home away from home. He could also come to our house–we were upstairs. Of course when she got sick, we rented out the first floor. At any rate, that’s why we wanted the second bedroom–for when he’d come. He had his own Bathroom. He liked it, too. Then with the Viatorian House up there at Granville and Sheridan–the Viatorian property. He could get back and forth easily.
RIGHT! THEY’RE CALLING IT BERGER PARK NOW. IT’S WHERE THE TWO MANSIONS AND THE COACH HOUSE ARE.
Well, the Viatorians owned three houses and so my brother loved to come here and
stay all night. Then in the morning he’d walk up there and say Mass. Oh, he was
very happy in his vocation.
DO YOU REMEMBER, THEY HAD ANOTHER CATHOLIC INSTITUTION RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF GLENLAKE, WHICH IS WERE WE ARE NOW? WAS THAT A FRANCISCAN HOUSE?
There is a Franciscan House at Glenlake and Kenmore.
RIGHT! WHAT I UNDERSTAND–THEY HAD THEIR PROPERTY ON SHERIDAN ROAD.
Yes, they had one of the old houses along there, one of the mansions. They were
there quite awhile.
YEH, THAT’S THE PROPERTY WE’RE IN NOW. I WONDER WHAT YOU REMEMBER OF IT.
I just remember it was there. I remember different Orders buying up those old
houses and using them for a Motherhouse.
RIGHT HERE NEXT TO
–that was an old nursing home we used to go to. Marian Haggerty would remember that–she lived here when the water came right up to the building and you’d go out–we have an inside doorway there right outside our pool. They just step out that doorway and there’s the lake–and you know, by the beach . .
As I say, get Marian to tell you about it–she lived here way back when.
DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THEY WERE FILLING IN AND BUILDING THE BUILDINGS HERE-
Oh, yes. I remember we had to use Sheridan Road when we’d go down to see my grandmother who lived on Belmont Avenue.
YOU HAD TO GO PAST ALL THE CONSTRUCTION WORK? SHERIDAN ROAD HAD THE OLD MANSIONS AND THE BEACHES RIGHT UP TO THE BUILDINGS. SO THEY DIDN’T HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL LANDFILL.
They were talking about filling in all the way up to Devon and Milwaukee–around
the Lake. But they couldn’t afford to. They’ve kind of put a stop to that!
ABSOLUTELY, IT’S VERY COSTLY. WE NEED SOME HELP HERE TO GET SOME OF THE TRAFFIC
OFF, BUT WE DON’T KNOW WHAT WE’RE GOING TO DO.
I read some place that they are considering having Sheridan Road northbound with
Broadway southbound, between Devon and Hollywood.
THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THEY TALK ABOUT DOING WITH IT–A LOT OF PLANS.
Are you on the Board?
YES.
Good, You see, Marian is on the Board for Care for Real. . .
IT’S NICE TO BELONG TO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS AND WATCH THE PROGRESS AND HAVE SOME SAY IN YOUR OWN COMMUNITY–MAKE SURE IT GOES THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO GO? DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE EDGEWATER BEACH WAS BUILT?
I remember it being built . .
CONNOLLY (?), HE’S THE ONE WHO OWNED MOST OF THE EDGEWATER AREA; HE’S THE ONE WHO ACTUALLY PUT THE FIRST BUILDING ON EDGEWATER. DID HE OWN MOST OF THIS PROPERTY HERE? DO YOUKNOW WHO YOUR FATHER BOUGHT HIS LAND FROM?
No–I don’t know the name; he was a landscaper, I know that much.
YOU HAD CHICKENS?
Yes, for quite awhile.
WHAT ABOUT THE NEIGHBORS? DID THEY HAVE CHICKENS, TOO?
They had chickens right next door to us. For quite awhile.
SO THERE WAS PRAIRIE AROUND–AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE RAISED CHICKENS. WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE UNUSUAL? SHEEP? GOATS? OR WHAT?
We were glad to have a car–with our seven kids.
YOU HAD A LOT OF THINGS WE DON’T HAVE. YOU SAID THE GROCERY MAN DELIVERED. HOW DID HE DELIVER?
By horse and wagon.
I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS A KID. THEY HAD THESE MEN WHO USED TO GO UP AND DOWN THE ALLEYS AND AROUND THE STREETS SELLING THINGS.
Peddlers!
PEDDLERS AND KNIFE SHARPENERS. DID THEY HAVE THEM AROUND?
They did. They even had a lamp lighter–a man who would come around on his bike every night and light street lamps. And the fire engines! Oh, we loved to go to the fires and watch the firemen put out the fire. They had a horse to pull the wagons–poor things–steaming in the winter, you know.
YOU WATCHED THE FIREMEN? HOW WAS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AT THAT TIME?
They used to walk up and down the street, their beat. They’d stop and visit. They knew all the kids. No squad cars.
YOURS WAS A VERY QUIET AND PEACEFUL COMMUNITY. Very! ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU THINK–HOW MANY HOMES AT THE DIFFERENT RANGES. YOU SAID THINGS WERE BUILDING QUITE RAPIDLY AROUND YOU.
When we first came, there were mostly frame houses. Every house on Granville was a frame with porches. That’s where the brick buildings are now. We had many empty lots–they were our playgrounds.
WHAT ABOUT CHURCH? THERE’S A CHURCH AT GRANVILLE AND LAKEWOOD. IT’S A WHITE PICKET-FENCED CHURCH.
Country church type–that was there. I remember it when I was a kid–I decided to go in one time. I trotted up to the front seat, and there was a wedding going on. So they put me out. There was another church at Greenview and Granville. That was a real old building; they finally tore that down.
SO MANY OF THE CHURCHES ARE CELEBRATING THEIR CENTENNIALS THIS YEAR, OR LAST YEAR, OR NEXT YEAR. IT SEEMS THAT ABOUT A HUNDRED YEARS AGO–LONG BEFORE YOU WERE UP IN THIS AREA, THERE WERE QUITE A FEW OF THEM THAT WERE ALREADY ESTABLISHED. WERE THE CHUCHES HERE WAITING FOR THE PEOPLE TO COME? WHERE DID THE PEOPLE COME FROM? DO YOU REMEMBER? YOUR FAMILY CAME FROM WHERE?
St. Mary’s of the Lake.
WAS THIS CONSIDERED A SUBURB? WAS THIS CONSIDERED FAR OUT?
This where I am now was considered Edgewater. When we moved, it was called north Edgewater.
WAS IT A SUBURB, OR DID YOU CONSIDER IT A PART OF CHICAGO?
Part of Chicago–next was Rogers Park area. Folks lived in what they called Lakeview–all around Irving Park, Belmont. My grandparents lived on Belmont. My grandfather and grandmother lived through the Chicago Fire. My grandmother was born in Chicago, so we really go back.
SO SHE LIVED THROUGH THE CHICAGO FIRE? WHERE DID THEY LIVE AT THAT TIME? WERE THEY IN CENTRAL CHICAGO, OR THE SOUTH SIDE?
No-no, the north side somehow, the fire didn’t get up to them. But they could see it. So my grandfather dug a hole out in the front yard and buried everything of value, and on the top he put this mirror, then stamped on the ground. Then nobody would know anything was buried there. After the fire he took everything out. The mirror, of course, was all cracked, but we still have the frame in the family. My father lived in Cicero at the time and he said he was about four–and they allowed the maid to take him to some bridge where he could watch the fire from there.
FROM CICERO—THAT’S INCREDIBLE. SO YOUR GRANDPARENTS, YOUR MOTHER WAS BORN HERE, AND YOUR FATHER WAS BORN IN CICERO.
My grandmother was born in Chicago, and my grandfather was born in Germany–Hamburg or Frankfurt. I never know which (laugh)
IT’S ONE OF THE FOOD PRODUCTS, HUH? ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN THINK OF TO LET THE FUTURE PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT YOU?
I can’t think of anything else the future people would be interested in.
YOU’VE TOLD AN AWFUL LOT—WE UH–IT’S DIFFICULT TO REMEMBER EVERYTHING. AS YOU WERE TALKING, I WAS THINKING BACK TO MY OWN CHILDHOOD AND WONDERED IF I COULD REMEMBER NAMES OF DRUG STORES OR NAMES OF THIS OR THAT.
But then, you haven’t lived in the same neighborhood for so long!
NO, I MOVED FROM THE SOUTHSIDE TO HERE.
That drug store I talked about at Granville and Broadway has just been torn down when they built Millionaire’s Club or something like that.
I MOVED INTO THIS AREA ABOUT TWENTY YEARS AGO AND I DON’T RECALL THAT PLACE–I
THINK THE MILLIONAIRE’S CLUB WAS ALREADY THERE. BUT THEN, TWENTY YEARS DOESN’T
SEEM LIKE ANYTHING COMPARED WITH WHAT YOU GAVE US. IT WAS THEN ALMOST IDENTICAL TO WHAT IT IS NOW.
I’m sure there aren’t many changes.
NO, BUT THE PEOPLE CHANGE. YOU SEE A CHANGE IN PEOPLE RIGHT NOW AND BEFORE IT
MIGHT HAVE BEEN ALL RELATIVES OR PEOPLE CLOSE TO YOU.
And it wasn’t so congested. You see, Kenmore and Winthrop went through a big
change. They had nice old homes. I remember along the El–there was space
DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE EL THAT WAS ON THE GROUND LEVEL WAS RAISED?
No. I was trying to think of that the other day. I don’t remember the date.
YOU REMEMBER SEEING IT HAPPEN BUT NOT SURE WHEN? ONE THING I THINK WE WOULD BE QUITE INTERESTED IN, IF IT IS ALL RIGHT WITH YOU–SOME OF THESE PICTURES THAT ARE MEMORIES OF YOURS. THERE ARE CERTAIN ONES–WE HAVE A MAN WHO WILL REPRODUCE THEM AND RETURN THEM, ONCE WE GET A COLLECTION. BUT I’M NOT TAKING THEM NOW, BUT IF IT IS ALL RIGHT WITH YOU MAYBE WE COULD TAKE THE PICTURES OF YOUR HOME AND ANOTHER. I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY NICE, BECAUSE WHAT WE WOULD DO THEN IS KEEP A SORT OF A SNAP SHOT ALBUM OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWED. HE SAID HE WILL REPRODUCE THEM ALL AND HAVE THEM RETURNED. I’LL LET YOU KNOW WHEN THAT IS OKAY, SO WE WILL BE GETTING IN TOUCH WITH YOU AGAIN.
THIS HAS REALLY BEEN A PLEASURE TALKING WITH YOU!
Well, I’ve enjoyed visiting with you, too. We’re especially lucky we made the date for today. Our driver, the one who usually takes us to dinner on Sunday, had a terrible cold and wouldn’t be available today. Usually a group of us go for dinner on Sunday unless we have something better turning up.
YOU MENTION A COLD–WHAT ABOUT DOCTORS AND HOSPITALS IN THE PAST?
You wouldn’t happen to know Doctor Isabel McCrary–her father lived at the corner of Granville and Winthrop. Her father had a big place, residence across the way–
He was our doctor–lived right there on the corner. We’d have to go over there, get vaccinated and all. We didn’t get shots in those days. But he also delivered some of our babies.
IN THE HOUSE? IN YOUR HOUSE OR HIS?
Oh, in our house. Sure, I was sleeping in the room right next to where my sister was born. My father came in at 5:30 in the morning and said, Mary, you have a baby sister. I later thought about that–kids didn’t know or question anything about that then. Oh, yes, we were all born at home.
HOW ABOUT ILLNESSES IN THAT AREA?
When we lived on Granville, there would be few days we didn’t have a red sign on our door for quarantine. Having seven kids, we went through the chicken pox, measles, diphtheria and what have you. Oh, we got to know the Health Department. A man would come and put up a sign–we got to know him so well one time after putting up the sign he said, Oh, you have a piano. Do you mind if I try it? And he sat down and entertained my mother. Every time he’d come, he’d say, Can I play the piano today? (Both laugh) We were quarantined for a lot of diseases back then. There’s no quarantine for them now. And my poor father wasn’t supposed to go to work–nor was the milk man supposed to pick up our milk bottles when the quarantine sign was up. When the sign came down, the house had to be fumigated.
WHAT WORK DID YOUR FATHER DO?
He worked for Mayer and Wenthe Rubber Stamp. If you were in the business world, I’ll bet you had a Mayer-Wenthe rubber stamp.
I BET! I’LL HAVE TO CHECK ON MINE. WHERE WERE THEY LOCATED?
Well the last place they had was downtown–their factory was over on Jefferson Street near the Northwestern Station. He’d take the Northwestern railroad to get there. Now the company is down in the Daley Plaza at Clark and Madison, kitty corner from City Hall. They supply most of the rubber stamps in the city.
DID YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS GO DOWNTOWN AT ALL? VERY MUCH?
Not very much, but we went. I know I let my daughter go down. She was only in seventh grade and there was a show they wanted her to see. She took the El–went to an eleven o’clock showing in the morning. It lasted until two, then she returned. No problem!
THINGS WERE DIFFERENT THEN. MY MOTHER USED TO TAKE ME DOWNTOWN TO A MOVIE THEATER–EVEN WHERE THEY HAD LIVE PERFORMANCES. TO THE CHICAGO THEATER!
Oh, I’m glad I lived in the days of musicals–they were wonderful!