Irene M. Wallace (Transcript only)

 

INTERVIEWER: Betty Gilman Mayian
INTERVIEWEE: Irene M. Wallace
DATE OF INTERVIEW: March 7, 1986
PLACE OF INTERVIEW: 6301 N. Sheridan Rd. 15E
FULL NAME: Irene Markwell Wallace
Irene, you were born where?
 
In Iowa.
 
YOU CAME UP HERE WITH YOUR PARENTS AT WHAT TIME?
 
My dad was a railroad man, so I went to about twelve different grammar schools, in Iowa, then Wisconsin, and here. We moved into 1449 Granville in 1909. Because we were right across the street from Hayt School, we used to wait for the bell to ring before we’d run across the street to school. Two years ago they invited me to come out because I was one of the oldest graduates they could find. When I graduated from there, I went to the little red school house on Clark Street, where the American Legion is now. That was part of Lakeview High School. Then we all marched in to Senn when it was built and I was in the second graduating class, the Class of 1915.
 
IN WHAT YEAR WERE YOU BORN? WHAT WAS YOUR CHURCH AFFILIATION?
 
I was born in 1896. I was affiliated with the Little Country Church in the city on Granville. That’s where we joined in 1909 and now I’m the oldest member, not in years but in membership in the church. It’s changed a lot now, different group of people now. The church burned down about twenty years ago and then it has been rebuilt. The fire started in the organ after a wedding one Saturday. They never knew how it happened. The organ fell down into the church proper; the church was completely demolished. Then the movie house, The Devon Theater, let us use their facilities so we could have church every Sunday morning until the new church was built. Other theaters in the area–one was one that my father used to take us to on Devon, across Clark Street. Admission was a dime. Then it was moved across
Clark Street where the hardware store is now. We didn’t have colored pictures then, but they had really beautiful movies. Now all the movie houses are gone, the Granada is closed–everything. I just can’t believe it. We used to stand in line to see movies. The television has changed that. I haven’t seen a movie in twenty years at a movie house. I can get everything I want here.
 
DID YOU SEE ANY LIVE PRESENTATIONS? PLAYS? THINGS LIKE THAT?
 
Well, when I was going with boyfriends, we used to see a lot of the shows down­town. The Follies and all. It used to be that we never locked our doors, night or day. We had a house and I never carried a key. No matter what time I’d come home I could get in. You can’t do that anymore, not even in the country.
 
YOU’VE SEEN A LOT OF CHANGES. WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER HOW DO YOU RECALL THE NEIGH­BORHOOD LOOKING?
 
I remember when the El was raised. I worked for Mr. Stait who was the man who had charge of the Milwaukee and St. Paul. Then it was on the ground from Wilson Avenue up. Then they raised it as far as Evanston. I was then on roller skates. Other transportation was the Broadway car line. I walked to and from grammar school, also from Senn High. My daughter and son graduated from Senn, too. When my son graduated, we were written up in the paper honoring the graduates of Senn whose children were graduating from Senn, also. Why are they now calling it the Academy?
 
I DON’T KNOW EXACTLY. I KNOW THEY HAVE CHANGED THE TYPES OF CLASSES GIVEN. THE STRUCTURE HAS CHANGED.
 
Well, they have a lot of blacks transported from the south side. You go down to Thorndale in the afternoon after school is out and you see them all taking the El. I feel sorry for them, because they have no activities after school. They have to go right home.
 
THAT’S SAD. THEY ALSO HAVE SO MANY COUNTRIES REPRESENTED IN THE SCHOOL. I BE­LIEVE THE CURRICULUM COULD NOT BE THE SAME AS IT WAS BEFORE. THEY HAD TO EXPAND OR ALTER THE CURRICULUM TO ACCOMMODATE THIS, SO THE STRUCTURE CHANGED AND THEY NOW CALL IT AN ACADEMY.
 
I know when I graduated, there were only three black families, and they had been there long before we were. They were coachmen and maids for somebody on either Ardmore or one of those streets. The place is still there with the coach house and the fence surrounding it. Then those owners bought a two-flat for one black family. They are still living there. I know a couple graduated with either my daughter or my son. They are wonderful people; the children are now doctors and lawyers, and all.
 
THEY HAD GOOD OPPORTUNITIES.
 
Yes, and they were really good people. Then I moved down to Early Avenue when we were first married. Later we moved back to North Town and when my daughter went to high school, we moved back into this neighborhood.
 
WHAT TYPE OF HOME DID YOU LIVE IN WHEN YOU FIRST CAME? WHAT STRUCTURE WAS IT?
 
The first one on Granville was frame, but upstairs and downstairs. We had four bedrooms. Then when my dad bought the new house, it was stucco, and it’s still a very good looking house. That was 6242 Greenview, right north of Hayt School. That’s where I was married.
 
HOW MANY BROTHERS AND SISTERS?
 
Just one sister. She just died two years ago. And I lost my daughter last June. I’ve just been broken-hearted. Here I am, why didn’t God take me instead of tak­ing my daughter. She had so much to live for. She was sick only three weeks with acute leukemia. I’ll show you her pictures. A beautiful girl.
 
OH, YES, HOW BEAUTIFUL!
 
Sick only three weeks, and she’d never been sick in her life. The doctor sent her home because he thought she was some better and he wanted her to rest up for treatments. After she died, the doctor said I should get down on my knees and thank God because her heart was so bad she couldn’t have stood the agony. We never had to see her suffer. But she has four children, six grandchildren. She had so much to live for.
 
THEN YOU HAVE GREAT GRANDCHILDREN?
 
I have six great grandchildren. One of them is going to be married this summer. The two boys are married, so I’ll be great, great grandmother soon, I suppose.
 
DO THEY COME TO VISIT YOU OFTEN?
 
Oh, Yes. My son-in-law is just wonderful to me. He calls me practically every night. There’s never a weekend that we aren’t invited out there, or they come in here.
 
WHEN YOU GRADUATED FROM SENN, THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?
 
Well, I went to business college in the loop. I got a good job right away. My father was working for the railroad so he got me a job with Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul. That’s where I worked until I was married. In those days when you got married you quit work. I didn’t have children until I was married four years. I had been secretary to the vice president of C M & St. P when I got married. I was twenty-four.
 
HOW DID YOU MEET YOUR HUSBAND?
 
At the skating rink down at the Armory. I had a diamond from another fellow when I met him. He went over with the last group that went over and he was of the first group to come back, so he never got into fighting. I was introduced to him at the Armory. We just hit it off from the start. When the other fellow returned, I chose the one I met at the skating rink.
 
WHAT WAS YOUR HUSBAND’S NAME?
 
Russell Wallace. He was vice president of Lincoln National Bank until the time he died. He was a lawyer, but never practiced law as such. He was a wonderful man.
 
DO YOU RECALL WHEN THE SKATING RINK CHANGED TO THE ARMORY?
 
It was just beautiful–that’s what it was built for, a skating rink. But soon after I was married it changed, to be used for the Home Guard. I don’t know why they ever got rid of it as a skating rink because it was just wonderful. It was opened every night–music and all. It catered to a nice crowd.
 
WHAT ELSE DID YOU DO FOR ENTERTAINMENT?
 
The beach, of course. During the war, we girls would go downtown to a show and go out to eat afterwards. We’d come home at one in the morning. One would go one way, another in another direction, never afraid! You’d never do that today. I still go out to lunch once a month with a girl I went through grammar school with. She lives in S__________________. We meet and go to lunch. Outside of that all of my former friends are gone, so I’ve had to make all new friends. The people in this building are very nice. My son was president of the condominium for awhile. He was also treasurer. Now he’s treasurer of the Bethany Lutheran Church on Thorndale. Do you know Mary Churchill? She’s active in our church and I just wondered if you know her. My son belongs to your Council.
 
DO YOU RECALL THE EDGEWATER BEACH HOTEL?
 
My daughter was married there. That was really the one place in the neighborhood everybody loved to go to. I just felt terrible when they tore it down. It was the one place we could be so proud of. Tearing that down was the start of the decline. It just didn’t seem possible, because they had those beautiful grounds and all. We’d go there for an evening and really enjoy ourselves. It was so well built, just beautiful. My daughter was married at our Little Church over here and we had the reception at the hotel. She always said that it was the highlight of her life. They stayed there all night then started out the next day on their
honeymoon. When bobbed hair came in, I had my first haircut there in the Edge­water Beach–they had a beautiful beauty parlor. Everybody I knew who wanted a hair cut went there. Now it doesn’t even look like the same neighborhood.
 
I NEVER USED ITS FACILITIES BECAUSE BY THE TIME I WAS READY, IT WAS BEING DEMOLISHED. I REMEMBER THEIR TALKING ABOUT IT ON TELEVISION. HOW SAD!
 
We went there for dinners, and we also went there a lot for lunch. They had two dining rooms. One that we went to for lunch wasn’t quite so expensive as the other one. Then, with your dates, you’d go to the better one.
 
WE MAINTAIN THE HISTORICAL MEMORY OF THAT MARINE DINING ROOM AND EVERY YEAR WE HAVE A DANCE. THIS YEAR WHEN WE HAVE IT, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU’RE INVITED SO THAT YOU CAN COME WITH YOUR SON. WE USUALLY HOLD IT IN THE ARMORY.
 
I’d love to go back and see what that is like now.
 
I’LL MAKE SURE YOU GET AN INVITATION. I’M SURE YOUR SON DOES GET AN INVITATION.
 
Yes, he does, but he’s been so busy that he hasn’t gone to it. They try to get him to be more involved, but he has worked so hard here in this building–he just can’t get into everything. Are you interested in that building on Bryn Mawr that burned down recently?
 
THE CARE FOR REAL? I AM INTERESTED IN IT. I CARE ABOUT IT, BUT I HAVE NOT BEEN A VOLUNTEER. I’VE GIVEN THEM SOME MONEY.
 
I think that Mary Churchill is in your building.
 
THAT’S WHERE I HEARD OF IT. BOTH OF THE LADIES I INTERVIEWED SO FAR ARE VOLUNTEERS FOR CARE FOR REAL. THEY ARE TRYING SO HARD TO FIND ANOTHER FACILITY. RENTS ARE SO HIGH!
 
You can’t do much—you have to get something almost for nothing, then you really can do something. It has to be the right kind of facility. There are a lot of mag­nificent people in churches, and ministers have volunteered quite a bit of their efforts towards keeping that up–it’s a wonderful project, one we can be proud of. When I was a little girl and came down to swim, I thought only the millionaires lived on Sheridan Road. That I would ever live on Sheridan Road was the farthest from my mind.
 
THE MILLIONAIRES, I THINK, MOVED TO PALM BEACH.
 
That’s right! I belong to the Northend Women’s Club and we used to meet in the
church building there on the corner of Granville, and that man, Mr. Donaghoe, I think was his name, laid out all of the streets in the neighborhood. One of my
friends married one of the boys who lived there. And then, where the school is,
is another friend of ours.
 
SACRED HEART SCHOOL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
 
Yes, he had a sad thing happen. He burned to death. His home burned, and all.
Then they tore down that whole block. It used to be all beautiful homes where
the school is now. But they kept that building on Sheridan and Granville–I
don’t know if they had offices there or not, but it’s used for the school. Then
they were given all the houses where you are having your activities.
 
THE VIATORIANS.
 
Yes.
 
THAT’S THROUGH THE CITY. WE’VE HAD TO GET A LOT OF MONEY TO RESTORE IT.
 
The Church owned all of that then.
 
THEY DID? WELL, THE CITY OWNS IT NOW.
 
Yes, I know. And isn’t the one place open now?
 
THE NORTH MANSION IS OPEN. DO YOU REMEMBER WHO LIVED THERE?
 
No, I don’t because we used to come up here all the time to swim, have our lunch.
I know our mothers would pack us lunches, and we’d come for the whole day and go
home in our wet bathing suits–walk way back to Greenview. Now we wonder how we
did it. But we enjoyed it so.
 
HOW LARGE WERE THE BEACHES AT THE TIME? WERE THEY BIG?
 
The beach here at Granville was very good. It was one of the best beaches along
here.
 
SO PEOPLE CAME FROM FAR AWAY TO- 
 
From far away to swim and all. And we had a life guard.
 
WAS THE GUARD MAINTAINED BY THE CITY?
 
I don’t know. It must have been, he had to be paid by somebody. In those days I
didn’t know enough about politics to question or get involved.
 
YOU GOT INVOLVED IN A WOMEN’S CLUB. WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THAT AGAIN?
 
Northend. Northend Women’s Club; we meet at our church. That’s one of the
wealthiest women’s clubs in the city because they sold that building that was
there on the corner.
 
OH, SO THEY HAVE A RESERVE!
 
We have $10 a year for our dues and then we get all these beautiful programs,
musicals, and all. We have a nice crowd and we meet in our church.
 
IS THAT A CLUB WITH ALL LADIES AROUND YOUR AGE, OR DIFFERENT AGES?
 
All different ages; it’s a growing club. I know when they have their conventions
they have them down-state or in Chicago. They’re very active. We work a lot for
the Children’s Memorial Hospital. We make thousands of dollars a year for them,
so that’s one good thing. We’re entertained down there once a year, too, because
we give so much. We can do it, because our dues are so little.
 
AND BECAUSE OF YOUR RESERVE.
 
Yes, because of the money we got from selling that house–that’s a life-saver.
 
SO MANY ORGANIZATIONS FAIL FOR WANT OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT. IT’S MARVELOUS THAT
YOU HAVE THAT. YOUR SON LIVES WITH YOU?
 
Yes, I live with him– (both laugh)
 
YOU LIVE TOGETHER!
 
He works for C & E Insurance, ever since he’s been out of college he’s worked for
them. That’s about twenty-eight years.
 
WHAT DOES HE DO? DID YOU SAY HE’S VICE PRESIDENT?
 
He works for C & E. He doesn’t sell insurance, he’s in the office. He’s very
active in his church, the Lutheran church.
 
IS HE UNMARRIED?
 
He’s never married. He’s always had something here: my husband was sick for so
many years. Then living near his sister–she was like a little mother to him.
She was eleven years older than he was. We’ve been just broken-hearted, but as
my son-in-law says, tears won’t bring her back, so we’ve just got to make the best
of it. I’m trying awfully hard. I have the grandchildren. I just heard last
night (I have twin grand daughters) one of them’s going to marry this summer. They’re buying a house out in Mundelein. That’ll keep us busy for awhile.
 
THAT’S FOR SURE! WE TALKED ABOUT TRANSPORTATION. DID YOU OWN A CAR? DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOUR FIRST FAMILY CAR WAS?
 
Not until after I was married–my father never had a car. He had a stroke. They had property in Glenview so they moved there. Then he bought a car and my sister drove it. We’ve had a car in the family ever since. I learned to drive just be­fore I was married.
 
WHAT KIND OF CAR DID YOU HAVE?
 
My husband worked for a Lexington Automobile place on the south side, and the funny part is, all this talk about a hotel on the south side where they thought the gangster Capone was–that’s where my husband gave me a diamond on a Sunday night. He took me out there for dinner. We didn’t know anything about that hotel, but his office was within two blocks of it. The Lexington Motor Company was on the south side. Now I read all about that place–it was awful, I guess.
 
NOT AT ALL TIMES.
 
We got a beautiful dinner that night, so I get a kick out of it when they say it was Al Capone’s place.
 
MEDICINE AND DOCTORS WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG. Were there Hospitals around? OR DID THE DOCTORS VISIT YOU, OR WHAT?
 
There was Evanston Hospital and St. Francis, but the ones down south of there, the one right up near here–Weiss, that was not there. There was no hospital around there. Our hospital is Augustana Hospital. Dr. Hedburg, who’s been in the neighborhood and lived on Norwood for years, is ready to retire. Dentists, we had two or three dentists up above the drug stores on Broadway and Dr. Ford was above the movie house. There was a wonderful drug store on the corner of Broadway and Granville.
 
MILLER’S?
 
No, not Miller’s. This man and his wife had the best ice cream sundaes. People came from miles to get their ice cream. Our church started on Broadway in a store. Now that whole block is gone.
 
WHEN YOU AND YOUR SISTER GOT ILL, DID THE DOCTOR COME TO THE HOUSE?
 
I don’t remember ever having a doctor.
 
YOU’RE KIDDING. YOU DON’T REMEMBER ANY OF THE CHILDHOOD DISEASES OR ANYTHING?
 
I had all those before we moved here.
 
IN IOWA? IN WISCONSIN?
 
Yes, I think we had everything there was to have, but my sister started school here. She was two years younger than I was. She passed away just a few years ago. She and her husband lived in this neighborhood all their married life. She didn’t have any children, but took care of mine. Then there was a grocery store on Granville and Broadway. Everybody traded there. You just wouldn’t know the neighborhood if you had been away for years and came back.
 
SO YOU DID MOST OF YOUR SHOPPING AT THAT STORE. DO YOU REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT?
 
No, but my mother used to call up the store, in what we call Swedeland–Anderson’s Grocery Store on Clark Street and they would deliver. In the winter they’d deliver with a sled drawn by horses, and we kids would hitch our sleds on the back and they’d take us the whole rounds. I don’t think that store’s been there for years. They didn’t charge for delivery. They just delivered.
 
SO YOU USED THE PHONE TO ORDER?
 
I remember my mother calling up every morning, and they’d come every afternoon. I don’t remember her ever going out shopping.
 
THAT’S VERY INTERESTING. YOU GOT EVERYTHING FROM THEM: MEAT, VEGETABLES, AND ALL.
 
Then Winsberg’s. I think we paid for half of their store–they used to be at Clark and Peterson. Then Mr. Winsberg bought it. It was a wonderful store. You could get such good things there. The present owners don’t have any clothes for men. In fact, it’s hard to buy clothes for men any place in the neighborhood. I just hate to see Winsberg’s go. You could be invited some place at the last minute and be able to go there and buy a present for the host or hostess. I did half of my Christmas shopping there. They wrapped everything. Now it’s just women’s and children’s wear. Also they still have the uniform company. They supply uniforms for all the Catholic schools throughout the city.
 
THAT SHOULD KEEP THEM BUSY.
 
But Winsberg’s isn’t the same. They’ve done away with all the crystal. I’ve bought a couple of children’s things up there, but it’s not the same.
 
THE MAN WHO IS OWNER OF YOUR CONDO (Bob Kahnweiler) HAS A WONDERFUL HARDWARE STORE.

Yes, he’s got everything in his place, too. But not clothes. His is the only store around here now. His mother and father owned what was like a ten-cent store next to Barr’s Funeral Parlor and the part where Barr’s have caskets–his parents had that whole section. His mother and father ran the store. For a long time since his mother would sit over in the hardware store. Do you remember that?
 
I CERTAINLY DO. SHE USED TO TAKE THE MONEY. TO ME, HIS STORE HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THE CLASSIEST.
 
He has a very nice store and he’s good about bringing anything home. I’ll call up and say I need this or that. I don’t even have to go to the store, he brings it to me or to anyone in the building who phones him.
 
WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO GET SOME OF THE OTHER STORES TO UPGRADE THEIR QUALITY AND SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME OF THAT CLASS BACK.
 
We used to have wonderful stores but they have gone down with the neighborhood.
 
THAT’S THE WAY IT IS ALL OVER. I’M FROM THE SOUTH SIDE. IT’S GONE DOWN, TOO.
 
If we could just get the neighborhoods so that older people could walk down the street and not be afraid.
 
I DON’T REMEMBER THAT WE COULD LEAVE OUR DOORS UNLOCKED. I’M EVEN AFRAID TO BE HOME ALONE BY MYSELF.
 
I just can’t believe there’s no safe place to live. No matter where you go in
the world. It’s just one of those things.
 
POPULATION HAS GROWN, THE CHANGE OF VALUES!
 
I lived in North Town for twenty some years and all of the stores over there were just marvelous. We never had to go downtown.
 
YOU MEAN THE STORES ON DEVON AVENUE?
 
Yes. Now it’s all foreign people who have the stores and they aren’t Christians. They’re open on Christmas and Easter, every day. They have changed that whole neighborhood.
 
YES, SARI PLACES UP AND DOWN DEVON. I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN WEAR SARIS.
 
THEY MUST MAKE BUSINESS SOMEHOW. I DON’T UNDERSTAND IT.
 
They must come over here with money. How can they settle in those places?
 
THAT’S TRUE. HOW DO THEY MAINTAIN THEM? BECAUSE AS YOU SAY, HOW MANY PEOPLE BUY SARIS?
 
Some dress as Americans and wear regular clothes. They must not have lights in
their country, like where you cross the streets because they’ll put their hand up
in the middle of the block to have you stop your car to let them pass instead of
their going to the corner.
 
YOU’RE LUCKY THEY PUT THEIR HAND UP.
 
It’s hazardous when I drive over there because they just dart out right in front
of the car. They expect you to look out for them.
 
ABSOLUTELY! DO YOU STILL DRIVE?
 
Oh, yes.
 
WHAT KIND OF CAR DO YOU DRIVE?
 
An Oldsmobile. Thank goodness I passed my test a year ago so I still have two more
years. After that I’m sure I won’t be driving.
 
MY MOTHER STARTED WHEN SHE WAS SIXTY AND QUIT WHEN SHE WAS SIXTY-FIVE. IT’S A
WONDER SHE STARTED AT THAT AGE, NEVER HAVING DRIVEN BEFORE.
 
My Fair Lady was the last movie I saw and that was at the Granada. I saw that on a New Year’s Day when my husband and son were watching football and I walked over there from Granville. That was the last time I went to a movie. But I made up for it during my younger days. That’s all we had was to go to the movies. I can’t believe the ones that are gone–on Lawrence and Broadway, The Uptown–that was a beautiful theater.
 
THERE’S A LITTLE SHOPPING CENTER THERE NOW.
 
They have one in Rogers Park ever since I was a girl. The 400. Yes, the 400. It’s a nice clean theater.
 
DO YOU WALK AROUND HERE, LET’S SAY AROUND SHERIDAN ROAD?
 
Oh, yes. I have a lot of friends in the We play cards. I play bridge. I belong to clubs. If it’s close-by, I can take the bus, like when they have luncheons down at the Edgewater Apartments. I just get on the bus and go down. What’s the use of paying for parking when you can get the bus right in front of the house.
 
A LOT OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS CONFIRMED BY MARY CALLAHAN AND MARIAN HAGGERTY. A LOT IS DIFFERENT, TOO. THOSE TWO LADIES ARE IN THE EDGEWATER APARTMENTS. I WISH YOU COULD REMEMBER THE NAME OF THAT DRUG STORE, BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T PUT A NAME ON THE OWNERS EITHER. WAS IT MILLER?
 
No, but it was a good man. Our doctors would tell us to take the prescription to him because he’d fill them the way they should be. He retired from there and then went over to the Edgewater Hospital and had charge of the medicine there. As soon as you go, I’ll think of the name. That’s one thing with my age, I forget names.
 
SISTER MARY CRAMER, THE ONE WHO SUGGESTED THAT I INTERVIEW YOU- 
 
Cramer! That’s it! Cramer’s Drug Store!
 
YOU’RE KIDDING! YOU MEAN I HIT UPON THE RIGHT NAME? (both laugh)
 
Isn’t that funny. I think Mrs. Cramer is still living. She’s living on Glenwood. She’d come there and fix the sundaes.
 
THAT’S GREAT BECAUSE THE TWO GREATEST SOURCES OF ENTERTAINMENT WERE THAT DRUG STORE AND THE ROLLER SKATING RINK IN THE ARMORY.
 
I just wonder what might have happened to my skates. I used to just love to skate. Everyone in the neighborhood felt bad when that place closed.
 
ANY PLACE ELSE FOR SKATING?
 
I used to skate in Lincoln Park. They had certain sections set aside. I don’t know if they still skate down there or not. I think they might at the north end.
 
WHAT RECOLLECTIONS DO YOU HAVE OF WHEN THINGS WERE TORN DOWN?
 
I remember when they built Mundelein. My daughter had a few friends who went there. Graduated.
 
THAT’S THE LADY WHO GOT THIS STARTED. SHE’S AT MUNDELEIN AND SHE’S IN CHARGE OF THIS PROJECT–SISTER MARY CRAMER.
 
Oh-h-h yes. Isn’t that funny how that name came right out.
 
DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN LOYOLA WAS BUILT?
 
I think Loyola’s Catholic Church used to be where the Granada Theater is. It is St. Ignatius. It was a beautiful little white church and it was built on a little hill or terrace. Across the street was the golf course. That went from Broadway to Clark Street. And then we had a ball park up at Clark and Devon. Then we also had a Farmer’s Market in there for a long time. But I can remember that little white church there. I was engaged to a Catholic boy so I used to go to a lot of the churches with him. Then they built the big church on Glenwood. The Granada then built in exactly the same spot as the old St. Ignatius Church. I can’t understand why the restaurants can’t do well over there with all the Loyola students and Mundelein students. They haven’t opened for about seven years. It changed hands about four times before that. I can’t understand it–such good parking and all. But young people eat hamburgers, fast foods. It’s too bad. Somebody should have bought that place by now. What was on the corner before the retirement home?
 
THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE WILL HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO BRING IN SOME REALLY FINE MERCHANTS. THESE ARE IDEAL SPOTS FOR BUSINESS. ON BROADWAY, THEY’RE NOW GETTING IN A CASUAL FURNITURE STORE. THAT WILL BE A BENEFIT. WE HAVE TO GET THAT KIND OF ATTRACTION WHERE TRAFFIC WILL WANT TO STOP.
 
Our butcher just moved from Thorndale to Broadway. I went to his great-grand­parents’ and uncles’ store on Devon and Glenwood. It was called Bornhoffen’s. One brother had the grocery store and the other brother had the butcher shop. And their mother–I remember when I was first married, I bought all of my meat there–and the mother was the cashier. Now I go to the great grandson. It was a wonderful butcher shop. You never got a bad piece of meat there.
 
WE’RE LUCKY WE HAVE TWO GOOD BUTCHER SHOPS LEFT IN EDGEWATER.
 
I’m glad because I didn’t like to go down on Thorndale any more. It’s a nice, pretty shop. His meat is very good. It may be a little more expensive, but I figure I deserve it.
 
ABSOLUTELY, IF ANYONE DOES (both laugh). ANDERSONVILTE, WHICH IS A PART OF EDGE-WATER, THEY ARE SUCH A STRONG SUBGROUP THAT PEOPLE DON’T RECOGNIZE IT AS BEING A PART OF EDGEWATER, BUT IT IS.
 
Dawn Wyman, I see that she’s one of the officers. She used to live on Norwood when we lived on Norwood. She married. The president of our class at Senn was her father, but I don’t think he’s living any more. I went to school with her mother in-law and father-in-law–graduated with them. I haven’t seen Dawn Wyman since she moved up there. I guess she’s got a couple of children. They had that bank on Clark Street in Andersonville–the bank just south of Berwyn. She used to work in politics for a long time. I worked, too, for the Republicans for thirty-two or more years, and my mother before that. She was really active in that. I worked as a clerk during Daley’s terms. One of my friends had a very good job at a restaur­ant down on Sheridan–a tea room. That girl was very active there. I went down to take someone’s place for a week and stayed on working for three years. It was a political job in Edgewater. We worked at a Volkswagon place, and a Lutheran church another time. When I moved over here they asked if I’d work, and I told them I was through getting up at 5 o’clock in the morning. I was the only one who drove, and I’d have to be one of the last to leave and take everything back to Senn. I figured I was a little old for that. We lived in Rogers Park on Lunt Avenue be­fore we moved down here. Estes and Washtenaw is a lovely community but it’s going downhill. Many of my friends have moved to Sauganash. One of my friends came into Glenlake just when the neighborhood was being built up–brand new homes. The younger ones all move out. When my daughter got married she moved to Park Ridge. It used to be, when we got married, we stayed in the neighborhood. They all want to get to the suburbs. My granddaughter just called. They’re buying a home in Mundelein. She works out that way.
 
TO ME, I LIKE TO LIVE WHERE I AM BECAUSE I WORK DOWNTOWN AND THE TRANSPORTATION IS SO GOOD.
 
Right next door here a young lady just moved in, came from the building across the street right at Glenlake and Sheridan where they built the big one in front. She works for the Marriott Hotel. She leaves at five o’clock in the morning. She has charge of the dining room. She’s not a waitress. She displays the food for the people to see.
 
EDGEWATER ASA COMMUNITY TODAY?
 
It makes me sick. They write and say it’s a beautiful place to live. They don’t realize how beautiful it was when it originated. We thought we were in the best part of town. Never had to be afraid of anything.
 
DID YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF IN CHICAGO?
 
Yes, always! Nor was North Town considered a suburb. When I was a young girl there was nothing there. St. Henry’s church was there, but west of that was all farm gardens. That’s where I lived for sixteen years. It was a beautiful neighbor­hood. We had Nelson’s Bakery. That was known all over the city. People came from all over for their bakery goods. (Discussion about Grotans ? ? ?)
 
Edgewater extends all the way over to the Rosehill Cemetery.
 
DO YOU RECALL ANYTHING ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR AREA?
 
They used to have Ace Laundry there for years and years. My mother, and then I, sent our clothes to Ace Laundry. Now that’s some kind of a building for the elderly. They have built up that whole block. The florist–that was our florist, but under different management–none of the original people are there. I still get flowers from the present florist. There’s also a dress shop. It, too, has changed hands. Ida May used to be in North Town. That’s the one I went to–when Ida May’s was there. Her daughter-in-law helped her, but when she passed away the shop was closed. There’s a new one by that name in Edgewater Beach. My sister bought a lot more than I did because she was more slender than I was. I never could find too much, but over on North Town’s Ida May’s, they carried larger sizes. I’ve lost about forty pounds in the last year or so. Now I could get into those smaller sizes.
 
YOU LOOKMARVELOUS. OF COURSE,I DIDN’T KNOW YOU BEFORE,BUT YOU LOOK MARVELOUS NOW.
 
My doctor asked if I was sure my birth certificate was right. Heredity has much to do with how one looks. My mother’s father and mother died when my mother was only twelve years old. Quick consumption is what they called it then in those little towns. They had a baby. My mother took care of that baby sister, even slept with her. The baby died of consumption three months after the mother and father. My mother had a very hard life. She was farmed out to all the farmers to help with their work and all. She said she really never had a happy day until she got married. She was a wonderful person, very active in the Methodist church. There’s a group of the younger set west of Broadway – Well I guess that’s all the time we have for. (After killing time for words the interview ended abruptly.)